Cicero (on the Stoics) · 106–43 BCE
Tusculan Disputations 2 ¶52 — Cicero (on the Stoics)
From “On Bearing Pain”
Translation by C. D. Yonge (1853)
Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 2 ¶52
You may ask, How the case is in peace? What is to be done at home? How we are to behave in bed? You bring me back to the philosophers, who seldom go to war. Among these, Dionysius of Heraclea, a man certainly of no resolution, having learned fortitude of Zeno, quitted it on being in pain, for, being tormented with a pain in his kidneys, in bewailing himself he cried out that those things were false which he had formerly conceived of pain. And when his fellow-disciple, Cleanthes, asked him why he had changed his opinion, he answered, “That the case of any man who had applied so much time to philosophy, and yet was unable to bear pain, might be a sufficient proof that pain is an evil; that he himself had spent many years at philosophy, and yet could not bear pain. It followed, therefore, that pain was an evil.” It is reported that Cleanthes on that struck his foot on the ground, and repeated a verse out of the Epigonae: Amphiaraus, hear’st thou this below? He meant Zeno: he was sorry the other had degenerated from him.
Cite this passage
Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 2 ¶52, tr. C. D. Yonge (1853)
https://whatwouldstoicsdo.com/passage/tusculan-disputations/2.52
Cicero, Tusculan Disputations, tr. C. D. Yonge (1853). Text: Standard Ebooks (CC0). Sources and licences
In plain English
AI-written notesDionysius of Heraclea abandoned the Stoic teaching that pain is not an evil when kidney pain overcame him, arguing that his long years of study had not taught him to bear it. His fellow student Cleanthes responded with disappointment that he had fallen away from Zeno's teaching.
Older wording
- “fellow-disciple”
- — a fellow student of the same teacher
Themes and situations
- Pleasure and pain
- Virtue and character
- Learning and progress
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