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What Would Stoics Do

Cicero (on the Stoics) · 106–43 BCE

Tusculan Disputations 3 ¶43 — Cicero (on the Stoics)

From “On Grief of Mind”

Translation by C. D. Yonge (1853)

Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 3 ¶43

It may be said on the other side: Who is so mad as to grieve of his own accord? Pain proceeds from nature, which you must submit to, say they, agreeably to what even your own Crantor teaches, for it presses and gains upon you unavoidably, and cannot possibly be resisted. So that the very same Oileus, in Sophocles, who had before comforted Telamon on the death of Ajax, on hearing of the death of his own son, is brokenhearted. On this alteration of his mind we have these lines: Show me the man so well by wisdom taught That what he charges to another’s fault, When like affliction doth himself betide, True to his own wise counsel will abide. Now, when they urge these things, their endeavor is to prove that nature is absolutely and wholly irresistible; and yet the same people allow that we take greater grief on ourselves than nature requires. What madness is it, then, in us to require the same from others? But there are many reasons for our taking grief on us. The first is from the opinion of some evil, on the discovery and certainty of which grief comes of course. Besides, many people are persuaded that they are doing something very acceptable to the dead when they lament bitterly over them. To these may be added a kind of womanish superstition, in imagining that when they have been stricken by the afflictions sent by the Gods, to acknowledge themselves afflicted and humbled by them is the readiest way of appeasing them. But most men appear to be unaware what contradictions these things are full of. They commend those who die calmly, but they blame those who can bear the loss of another with the same calmness, as if it were possible that it should be true, as is occasionally said in love speeches, that anyone can love another more than himself. There is, indeed, something excellent in this, and, if you examine it, something no less just than true, that we love those who ought to be most dear to us as well as we love ourselves. But to love them more than ourselves is absolutely impossible, nor is it desirable in friendship that I should love my friend more than myself or that he should love me so, for this would occasion much confusion in life and break in upon all the duties of it.
— Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 3 ¶43 · tr. C. D. Yonge (1853)Read in context →

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Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 3 ¶43, tr. C. D. Yonge (1853)

https://whatwouldstoicsdo.com/passage/tusculan-disputations/3.43

Cicero, Tusculan Disputations, tr. C. D. Yonge (1853). Text: Standard Ebooks (CC0). Sources and licences

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In plain English

AI-written notes

Grief is often defended as unavoidable nature, yet people pile on more of it than nature demands, partly from the belief that loud mourning honours the dead or appeases the gods. We admire people who meet their own death calmly but blame those who face a loved one's death calmly, and loving someone more than yourself is neither possible nor wise in friendship.

Older wording

“betide”
— happen to
“appeasing”
— calming or placating

Themes and situations

  • Grief and mourning
  • Friendship
  • Family and love
  • Judgements and impressions
  • Duty and roles
  • Bereavement

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