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What Would Stoics Do

Cicero (on the Stoics) · 106–43 BCE

Tusculan Disputations 5 ¶59 — Cicero (on the Stoics)

From “Whether Virtue Alone Be Sufficient for a Happy Life”

Translation by C. D. Yonge (1853)

Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 5 ¶59

These, then, are the opinions, as I think, that are held and defended—the first four are simple ones: “that nothing is good but what is honest,” according to the Stoics; “nothing good but pleasure,” as Epicurus maintains; “nothing good but a freedom from pain,” as Hieronymus asserts; “nothing good but an enjoyment of the principal, or all, or the greatest goods of nature,” as Carneades maintained against the Stoics. These are simple; the others are mixed propositions. Then there are three kinds of goods: the greatest being those of the mind; the next best those of the body; the third are external goods, as the Peripatetics call them, and the Old Academics differ very little from them. Dinomachus and Callipho have coupled pleasure with honesty; but Diodorus the Peripatetic has joined indolence to honesty. These are the opinions that have some footing; for those of Aristo, Pyrrho, Herillus, and of some others, are quite out of date. Now let us see what weight these men have in them, excepting the Stoics, whose opinion I think I have sufficiently defended; and indeed I have explained what the Peripatetics have to say, excepting that Theophrastus, and those who followed him, dread and abhor pain in too weak a manner. The others may go on to exaggerate the gravity and dignity of virtue, as usual, and then, after they have extolled it to the skies, with the usual extravagance of good orators, it is easy to reduce the other topics to nothing by comparison, and to hold them up to contempt. They who think that praise deserves to be sought after, even at the expense of pain, are not at liberty to deny those men to be happy who have obtained it. Though they may be under some evils, yet this name of happy has a very wide application.
— Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 5 ¶59 · tr. C. D. Yonge (1853)Read in context →

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Cicero (on the Stoics), Tusculan Disputations 5 ¶59, tr. C. D. Yonge (1853)

https://whatwouldstoicsdo.com/passage/tusculan-disputations/5.59

Cicero, Tusculan Disputations, tr. C. D. Yonge (1853). Text: Standard Ebooks (CC0). Sources and licences

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In plain English

AI-written notes

A survey of the rival schools and what each counts as good: only moral goodness, only pleasure, only freedom from pain, or some mixture of mind, body and outside goods. The speaker argues that even the schools that care about pain can still call a virtuous person happy.

Older wording

“honest”
— morally good and noble
“Old Academics”
— early followers of Plato's school
“indolence”
— freedom from effort and pain

Themes and situations

  • Virtue and character
  • Pleasure and pain

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